A Strange Thing Happened to Me on the Way to Brewfest Last Night

Sindy's Lair

As you may or may not recall, I haven't played much lately, and while I want to learn to tank, my gear is still a tad iffy, and my skills & experience are green at best.

And so it was with more than a little shock when the Guild Leader whisped me asking what my tank gearscore was. (roughly 4825)

"Cool, would you mind off-tanking Sindy tomorrow night?"

*blink*

*blank stare*

Before I could type anything back I get

"We have a couple folks missing from our regular raid team, and we're short a tank. Wow-heroes says you're geared enough..."

So I accepted the invite and kind of dreaded coming home from work tonite. I bought a few flasks and a couple other accroutrement before heading to bed.

Today at work, I watched the "How to /Sindragosa" vid, and all the other Sindy vids I could find.

How did it go?

Well, the trash had me a bit scared, since multi-mobs are NOT my speciality, but as OT, I only needed to pick up stragglers.

After that, phases 1 & 2 went pretty well. (it also helped that Kattastrophe was sitting next to me giving me propmts)

Then phase 3 hit, and I mis-stepped and got ice tombed.

It didn't wipe us, but it sure didn't help.

After a couple more wipes, I started to get the hang of it, but was still having troubles watching my debuffs.

With all the buffs, debuffs & such, my debuff listing got shoved down below where my DBM warnings are. I couldn't tell when I was safe to taunt off the MT.

And (for whatever reason) there's no DBM button around my minimap.

I finally remembered to try "/dbm" and I was finally able to try draggin my stuff out of the way.

It took a couple fights (moving DBM bars is a pain) but I finally got it cleared and was able to actually handle the taunts correctly.

We did pretty well. Especially since a couple of us had never seen her before. One attempt we got her down to 65,800, but that was our best.

(I still hadn't moved my DBM bars in this screen cap...)

Ah well, I still haven't beaten the Professor, or Dreamwalker, or even seen Blood Queen and a couple others, but it was interesting.

I'm getting better at the 969 (even though I have to watch my bars) and I'm managing my CDs and other stuff better.

N00b tank?

Yep!

Fail tank?

Not quite as much.

The one downside is that they are staying saved and not resetting, so I won't be having any chance to get any better tanking gear. I don't even have the good tank trinkets. (my fully raid buffed, and 30% ICC buffed) health is only 52k.

For a skilled tank and raid, that should be easy sauce, but we're still learning. (me in particular)

And I've been tentatively invited for Monday.

Reservation - The Desire to Tank, but the Fear that Prevents it

Tanking from the point of View of a DPS:

Since I'm reasonably durable, and because I know how cahllenging some fights can get, I am usually pretty lenient with Tanks. This is especially true with a lot of mobs, and even more true with a lower geared tank. If I'm not attacking the same target as the tank (either due to stupidity on my part or target switching on theirs)it's pretty darned easy for me to yank aggro.

As long as the healer doesn't bitch at me (which has happened once recently, in HoR during the run from Arthas - though the tank wasn't bothered evidently) I don't sweat it much.

The only time I will get a bit testy is when the tank is reasonably geared (at least from a GS number - as mentioned before, I don't inspect folks - I don't have the time) and when the healer keeps getting aggro, and I have to keep playing damage sponge because I have to keep taunting mobs off the healer.

Sometimes I think the healers are standing a tad too close, but with so many fights I realize that LoS is an issue, so that they NEED to be close-ish.

Then again, on other fights like the current Holiday Boss (Athune), with the bevy of mobs that keep spawning, I can fully understand how it's pretty much impossible to keep all the mobs on the tank. In these fights (especiall with a lower geared tank) I will actually turn on Righteous Fury and run as Off-Tank to help keep mobs off the healer. (an interesting PuG story about last night later in this post)

So, I am understanding, but when I see a tank NOT doing the basics (consecrate, stomp/whatever) to at least get SOME aggro, I will groan, and bitch to myself. As long as I don't get bitched at ("Watch aggro, nub!!"), I'll suffer silently.


Tanking from the the sword & board perspective:

I can sum this up in 2 words:

"Oh, Shit!"

Especially on nights like last night, where I offered to tank on a 4/5 guild run. "Unless we get an ICC heroic, then I'm bailing".

And what do we get?

PoS.

Piece of Shit Pit of Sauron

I wanted to bail, but the guildies said "nah, you'll be fine".

As ide from a slightly overeager group of DPS on the first couple groups, things went smoothly all the way to Ick & Krick.

We didn't wipe, but we did lose 2 DPS. But, I was happy with my performance overal to this point, because I kept the mob moving out of the green, didn't get more than one at a time, and the actual Boss fight seems to have gone well enough.

And then came the ramp from hell. You know, large groups of multiple mobs, including several casters? Yeah, that slice of hell.

We didn't get there quickly enough to avoid the first 2 groups, so we slogged our way up. We had a couple deaths and a couple REAL close calls, but we still made it.

I was asked several times if I was using Consecrate, and yes, I was.

If you're at all interested, my initial way of going in was:

Start running in
Hand of Reckoning (to damage one, and also to taunt)
Avenger's Shield to further taunt, damage, slow and silence
Drop Consecrate when I get into the middle to get more AoE aggro
Hit Holy Wrath to stun them and get even more aggro.

And then try to tab-tab-tab-tab. Which never works all that well. It will select a new target, but often will not actually TARGET them, until I cast something.

This means they will have the red circle below their feet, but my toon will not auto-attack, and some spells won't cast. (fortunately, Judgements will, as will Crusader's strike)

So, we slowly trudge our way up the ramp.

From there on out it was pretty easy, with only an occasional Righteous Defense.

The final boss fell without much ado.

So, I can fully understand loss of aggro on large groups, but there's still need for SOME work.

(by the way, if you read this half way through, I inadvertantly hit [enter] twice and it posted it.)

Double Vision, Tunnel Vision

(photo by Jill Fehrenbacher, part of her "Tunnel Vision" series LINK )

Alas, this is my usual vista when I play WoW. I tend to get very focused (or zoned out, if you think about it) and I will often miss things. Part of it is the often mind numbing aspect of RetPal DPS (hounding the action bar to hit spells *just* as they come off CD) or trying to avoid the fire/slime/bad AND DPS, etc etc, and I just don't see what's going on

• Twice with one group in Forge of Souls I was last man standing, and didn't even realize it.


• Similar things at least once a week, that I just don't recall.


• "Stealing" ore from someone else because I didn't see them in a struggle, 5 feet away trying to mine, but getting nabbed by a mob.


• Etc etc etc

Now, As a "mindless DPS", you can usually get away with this, ESPECIALLY when you out gear whatever content you are doing. But if you get into anything challenging, either personally or as a group, it will cause problems.

A brief sojourn off the path (did I mention I distract easily as well?)

Last night for our frost run, we (Kattastrophe & I) went into Violet Hold. WOOHOO! Fast easy run!

Well, Until the first boss, yes: Xevozz.

Now, keep in mind: I am geared pretty well. About 5,400, with pretty good itemization, gems and enchants. Kattastrophe is 5,700 +, and is healing through Sindragosa in 10 man.

The tank is knowledgeable and does his job, but he's rather low geared (3,200 GS, or there abouts). A few times, I wasn't paying attention and yanked aggro off him, but with Katt's healing, it went well enough. There was a boomkin with us that was keeping pace with me in DPS as well, and a third DPS I am completely unaware of who/what they were.

Regardless, aside from the tank, and maybe an extra DPS, we outgeared the crap out of that place, and neither the boomie or myself really had much chance to get into our rotation before most mobs died.

Yeah, there were a couple mobs I'd have to scoop up that went away from the tank when they spawned, but other than that, easy peasy.

Until Xevozz. Did I mention him?

I've fought him once before. I think. (I have the VH achie, so I must have, but I have zero recollection of it)

So, we start the fight against Xev (he's the first boss we get) and it's going a little slow. Even with nearly 10k total DPS, he's barely dropping in health.

BOOM! - tank's dead

BOOM - I'm dead

BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! everyone else is dead.

huh?

"Ah, according to wowwiki, the tank needs to kite the boss away from the orb things."

Try again.

A little bit better on DPS, then-

BOOM! - tank's dead

BOOM - I'm dead

BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! everyone else is dead.

Now, this isn't just me getting too much damage and not paying attention. It's pretty darned near instant (faster than I could see the damage and try to click something - 29k health gone, in less than a second or two) This time the tank simply had trouble getting the Boss to follow him.

Last attempt, I put on my tank gear and Righteous Fury, and they have me try to kite him.

It worked better, even though I'm having to taunt every time my taunts come off CD. I die, but the rest ended up dropping him.

The best we could figure is that the tank was just so low geared that he had trouble maintaining enough threat to kite, especially with 2 strong DPS, PLUS I'm not sure at that low GS if the tank was def capped (regardless, Katt said he needed a LOT of healing - he was a squishy tank) so that he also had to fend off a CRAPTON of healer aggro as well.

Not a fault of the skills of the tank. He did quite well overall, and the rest of the heroic was uneventful, aside from everyone thanking everyone else for sticking it out (and a couple big shoutouts to Katt for some awesome heals)

Back on message (sort of)

So after our frost run, Katt wanted some help levelling her mage. For her, (at level 69 or so) the LFD queues have been >>20 minutes (if she even gets into one) so we decided to run through one of the Zangarmarsh instances. (Steamvault)

Overall, uneventful, but I hadn't noticed that the final boss could really hit hard on occasion. Well, I was just rolling, BOOM! I got killed. (He was less than 1%, so Katt's mage was able to finish him off)

Katt calls it a night, and one of our online buddies asks if I could give her a hand getting a little exp and rep with Honorhold. (She's on her lvl 74 Prot/Ret pally)

We go into ramps (reg) and I pretty much steamroll the place. The only downside is that she didn't get any rep. (she wants to buy epic flying, so rep discount would be nice)

So, she buys the key, and we decide to run it in Heroic. Now, I've tried to solo the place before in Heroic, and I *know* it's more than I can really handle solo. So, I ask her to DPS when she can, but heal as much as possible.

Overall it worked, but we BOTH suffered from not paying attention.

- Me, I wouldn't notice that she was taking damage (or had died) and I just kept on doing the 969, and tabbing between mobs.
- Her, she would focus on healing me, and not notice that she was OOM, or that she was really low on health, and would get popped.

Now, there was only one or two cases where I simply didn't have aggro and she got attacked. Those I should have taunted off, and she would have lived. The rest? Neither of us were sure, but probably a combo of a few things that led to her deaths (4 or 5 times I think)

- The instance is really near the limit for a tank of my skill and gear
- Neither of us are all that skilled at the class/role we were each doing. She's a good priest healer, and I'm a pretty good Ret Pal. I am less than skilled as a Protadin, and she's not all that familiar with RaidRet.
- Tunnel vision on both our parts

Now, the good thing, was that we both improved. I actually started to get the hang of keeping up 969, Sacred Shield (SS) and Divine Plea (DP) and keeping things moving, target switching and such. (the darkcasters in there are a major pain. The layout isn't great to LoS, and 3 or 4 together of them hit like a truck) She also got better (or learned about) using repentance and such.

The one thing I never thought to ask/mention/suggest was for one of us to Judge Wisdom, and the other to Judge Light. I use Wisdom as a habit. If I were to guess, I would think she did as well. Much pain might have been avoided if we had been careful.

Regardless, we cleared the place without a wipe, though fighting Vazruden and Nazan was a close thing.

Our combined single target DPS wasn't all that great (I'm a bit less than 2k in Prot spec, and she was well below 1k - remember, she was healing too), so that Nazan landed before we had killed Vaz. By this time, I was having mana issues (not sure why) and by the time my friend died (Nazan was at 33% or so) I was essentially OOM.

My health was REALLY low, mana was barely there, so it was a race to the death and I wasn't sure how it would end. I kept adncing and moving to avoid as much fire as I could, kept judging wisdom as it came off CD (or I had enough mana to even cast it) and casting Divine Storm to get a bit of health back (which sucked the mana well dry). Finally the scaly bugger dropped, and we relaxed.

While I'm still not back to my "A" game, the challenges of playing a VERY different spec and playstyle, as well as a fairly challenging environment (H Ramps was, for me at least) definitely sharpened me a bit.

I may even try tanking heroics in LFD now. (though I am still petrified about getting an instance I will get lost in, or one that has a tank/kiting/etc mechanic fight that I'm unaware of) ButI really need to stop running heroics as Ret: it's mind numbing, boring, and teaches me to not think or pay attention.

Tanks for the Memories...

Tankfail... I've started seeing it more & more. (and healfail, and DPSfail...)
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I have seen a noticeable decline in the normal folks running in the PuG Heroics lately. My guess is that all the more hardcore, more determined, and such folks have got all their triumph badges, and have moved on to more gear-heaven-y pastures.
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How so?

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When the new LFG/Badge system was implimented oh-so-long ago (sarcasm) I would get into a fail PuG, maybe once in 10 runs. Now, I would say it's 50-50 at best. What makes a PuG fail? Here's what I think:

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- Everyone is "moderately" geared , at best. Though there may better geared DPS or two, it won't really help unless they can off-tank.

and

-ANY of the following:

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- woefully undergeared tank

or

- woefully undergeared healer

or

- moderately inexperienced (or dumb) tank

or

- moderately inexperienced (or dumb) healer

or

- all 3 DPS are dumb/undergeared

or

- one incredibad DPS (early pulls, etc)

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If you have a uber-geared Tank, or Healer, they can save (many) fail PuGs from failure, simply because they can either tank or heal the stupid/etc.

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The problem is, they are becoming less & less common. They've "out geared" the regular Heroics, and have moved on.

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I also think the long wait times for DPS are contributing to this. On my server, it can easily take 20 minutes to find a group as DPS. As a tank, it's less than 10 seconds. (I assume it's similar for healers)

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This has led more & more DPS people to play off-spec in an obvious attempt to get into runs more quickly. Fortunately, I have not seen any tanks port in and ask "who's the tank", like some have, but it's clear that many tanks & healers are second rate.

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This includes me. (more on this later)

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(and DPS? well, we're still the same lot of folks you had before, only with the best & brightest/geared-est of us moved on. ...durp durp..)

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Per espempio....

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I joined an LFG PuG that tried to run Utgarde Keep (UK). We wiped once just before the enslaved proto-drake area, TWICE in the protodrake area, (we killed the boss) and then wiped on the stairs leaving the level. TWICE.

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The tank was a Blood Spec DK with a 4,200 gear score. (I mention GS, simply to give a sense of the group's gear) We had me at 4,000 GS, a hunter at 3,900, a 4,900 Warrior and Priest healer at 4,000-ish (don't remember exactly) So, we were NOT undergeared, by ANY stretch of the imagination.

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Per my learnings from last weeks "5 things your PuG DPS (DK tank) want you to know", (see my second to last post) I make sure to give the DK Tank a few seconds to get aggro. (which lets me watch him "settle" into a spot, and let me circle behind) And then I start wacking.

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I have to keep stepping back out of combat, hitting "Hand of Salvation" (aggro dump) and overall, just throttling the hell out of my DPS. EVEN when I ensure that I am attacking the target that the tank marked. (which he actually did a couple times) Mind you, I wasn't heavily buffed, and I was only doing ~2,500 DPS on any single mob.

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After the second wipe, I put on my tank gear (still stayed Ret/DPS spec) Even at the lowered DPS (1,100 -1,600) I still managed to pull aggro a couple times. The best news was that I needed less healing, so the healer could focus more on the tank, etc etc.

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The third wipe, I just lost focus, and when I noticed my health drop quickly, I bubbled and healed, only THEN did I realize that everyone else had already died. If I had been paying better attention, I would have tried running to at least save some gold.

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The fourth wipe, the tank died, followed REALLY quickly they mobbed me and BOOM dead, even before the healer could help. Also, I had hit my Avenging Wrath key (not intentional) a minute or so earlier, which put my bubble on Forbearance (unable to use) so I died. (also, I had needed to Lay on Hands earlier, so it was on CD as well)

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I then died a 5th time running back through the proto-drake area, because one of the mobs managed to aggro on me. The tank didn't want to clear the Drake room, so we had left a drake on either side and, evidently, I didn't stay far enough away, got aggro and died.

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*leave group*

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I had another equally fail group that got so bad that the tank left(again a DK that kept losing aggro) followed by the healer. And 3 DPS waiting for group in LFG, in a dungeon is going to be a looong wait. (we waited for 5 minutes - then *leave group*)

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Katt had one group, with a tank & heal team (they were guildies) and the left group right after they killed the first boss in one instance. I guess they got whatever loot they wanted and bolted. I've not seen that behavior yet, so I can be thankful...

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On the GOOD side, we had a couple REALLY competant groups run, including a Tank that ran us through Stratholme, and started off by asking "are we going for drakes of zombies?" Thanks to his work, Katt has a Bronze Drake. :)

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Now about *my* sojourn into tanking...

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I have a couple good pieces, and a few so-so pieces. My GS is 3,200, which is well above the recommended Heroic level (which is stated to be ~2,500 or so) However my n00b debuff is strong, so I did NOT go "random LFG PuG". I know the Violet Hold (VH) fights reasonably well, so I simply looked for group for THAT.

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And even though I had a specific dungeon request, I *still* had a nearly instant invite.

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So where did the n00b-fest start? Let's see...

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Crusader Aura on? - check (makes faster mounted speed, not a combat spell)

Righteous Fury off? - check (increases my aggro - THE tanking spell)

Blessing of Sanctuary off? - check (THE tanking blessing)

Did I start the fight? - nope

Inadvertantly screw up my action bars because I lef them unlocked? - check

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However, even though I *DID* get heckled a bit by a rogue (he had the time to create the macro that said: "Balthazario's business as usual") we finished the instance without anyone dying, and with only mild face chewing on the DPS folks. When I thanked the group for dealing with my n00bishness, the healer said "you did fine", which helped my bruised ego a tad...

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So yeah, Tankfail is NOT limited to the folks on the other end of the network connection. (oh, and after running Vh the first time, I switched specs and ran Forge of Souls. But I left Righteous Fury on, and still had my tank gear equipped. Oops)

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My next two runs through there (one regular, one heroic) both went much better.

Once I learn other instances better, I'll try tanking them as well. (Stratholme is my next likely target, followed by Nexus)

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So, even if I can only run a couple instances this way, and even though I lose 2 "free" triumph badges (you only get the 2 extra if you use random) I can still earn badges faster this way. Mainly because I can run/tank 2 entire instances in the time it takes for me to simply queue for one on DPS.

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So, while the loss of expertise, gear and skill of tanks & healers is frustrating to me as a DPS, I COMPLETELY understand why it happens.

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I just wish they weren't such COMPLETE failures, so much of the time.

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EDIT - yeah, blogspot is acting up and not seeing my carriage returns, so you're stuck with periods for paragraph breaks. *sad furlbog*